Standard Air Charge

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cdjnight
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Standard Air Charge

Post by cdjnight » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:46 pm

Can someone please elaborate on this part of the Delta Force software???????
2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8, Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Turbonetics T76, 60lb injectors, Flowmaster Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Magna return fuel system, MSD Mod 6

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by Sidewinder » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:11 pm

This is the ratio of actual cylinder air charge to a theoretical air charge of a full cylinder at standard temp. & pressure. This value is the displacement of ONE cylinder times 0.000044256. This is used when changing engine size and it's easier to ratio this value up and down by the difference in displacement rather than calculate it. For Example, this value on a 4.6L engine is 0.0015531. If you stroked this motor to 298 CID, you'd take 298/282 and multiply this by 0.0015531 to get a value of 0.001641. Hope this helps.

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by cdjnight » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:04 pm

Sidewinder wrote:This is the ratio of actual cylinder air charge to a theoretical air charge of a full cylinder at standard temp. & pressure. This value is the displacement of ONE cylinder times 0.000044256. This is used when changing engine size and it's easier to ratio this value up and down by the difference in displacement rather than calculate it. For Example, this value on a 4.6L engine is 0.0015531. If you stroked this motor to 298 CID, you'd take 298/282 and multiply this by 0.0015531 to get a value of 0.001641. Hope this helps.


Ok I made a tune in special forces and brought it into Comando, the 5.4L tune is the same as 4.6 for example..(8lbs booste, 42lb. Bazooka ect, ect.....)
But this standard air charge value is way lower???????? Is this because the 2003 GT computer will only read a max of 1751 @ 5 volts so the software is lowering the Standard air charge figure to compensiate for Mass air ,meter. Also I noticed the hi/low slope for the injectors was like 22/26 and before it was 42/48 with a stock mass air meter.
2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8, Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Turbonetics T76, 60lb injectors, Flowmaster Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Magna return fuel system, MSD Mod 6

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by sniperpat469 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:16 pm

OK
I am glad you are asking these questions.
and if you feel the need to get into the ford calibration software to know more detail about it there is a good book on amazon written by a ford tuner.
It is very helpful. it is called engine management and advanced tuning.
by Greg Benish.

To answer your question on the tune sf made for you when the bazooka was selected.

in order to extend the range of the MAF meter there a few things done to the calibration when the 3000 kgh curve is used.
to accomplish this the CID displacement is usually cut about in half
as well as the injector slopes and a few other things,

So when the Bazooka is used, typical tuning strageties are not always useable.

Patrick
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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by cdjnight » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:31 pm

If I don't ask and understand what the program is doing then when I'm tuning I'm just guessing. I want to know why! Not just the how! Then when changes are needed I know right where to go to get the correct tune. Thanks for your help!
2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8, Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Turbonetics T76, 60lb injectors, Flowmaster Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Magna return fuel system, MSD Mod 6

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by Mattr66 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:47 pm

Pat,

so what is the maximum mass air value that the computers will accept? OR is this to keep the maximum load in check? Is this standardized across all EECV vs PPC processors? I know the chevy computers have a pretty low limitation, how about the Fords?

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by cdjnight » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:56 pm

Mattr66 wrote:Pat,

so what is the maximum mass air value that the computers will accept? OR is this to keep the maximum load in check? Is this standardized across all EECV vs PPC processors? I know the chevy computers have a pretty low limitation, how about the Fords?

Matt R


fyi...mine is 1751, C&L told me the same thing when their flow sheet wouldn't transfer at higher voltages into chart.
2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8, Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Turbonetics T76, 60lb injectors, Flowmaster Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Magna return fuel system, MSD Mod 6

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by cdjnight » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:02 pm

sniperpat469 wrote:OK

To answer your question on the tune sf made for you when the bazooka was selected.

in order to extend the range of the MAF meter there a few things done to the calibration when the 3000 kgh curve is used.
to accomplish this the CID displacement is usually cut about in half
as well as the injector slopes and a few other things,

So when the Bazooka is used, typical tuning strageties are not always useable.

Patrick


i found the changes you mentioned ( slope, displacement, maf transfer ) but what are the other few things?
2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8, Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Turbonetics T76, 60lb injectors, Flowmaster Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Magna return fuel system, MSD Mod 6

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by The Sniper » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:02 am

Ok, Let start with what you asked SF to do. You wanted a large meter 3000 KG/HR. The 2002 and newer pcm's will only support up to 1741 KG/HR in the file. After that the values roll over to 0's. So in order for us to be able to put such a large meter in we have to do a few tricks. First is to get the new flow of the meter at 5 volts (3000 kg/hr) and divide that by the max flow of the pcm (1741 kg/hr). With the result of that we get a new divide factor to apply to some other values such as inj. flow, standard air charge, and some others. The reason you are seeing an inj. flow of say like a 20 lb. when you told it you had a 40 lb is that the meter was 2x larger flow value than the pcm would support. So the hand full of items that you are seeing changed that look "weird" to you, are done to allow the use of higher flowing meters.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by cdjnight » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:09 pm

The Sniper wrote:Ok, Let start with what you asked SF to do. You wanted a large meter 3000 KG/HR. The 2002 and newer pcm's will only support up to 1741 KG/HR in the file. After that the values roll over to 0's. So in order for us to be able to put such a large meter in we have to do a few tricks. First is to get the new flow of the meter at 5 volts (3000 kg/hr) and divide that by the max flow of the pcm (1741 kg/hr). With the result of that we get a new divide factor to apply to some other values such as inj. flow, standard air charge, and some others. The reason you are seeing an inj. flow of say like a 20 lb. when you told it you had a 40 lb is that the meter was 2x larger flow value than the pcm would support. So the hand full of items that you are seeing changed that look "weird" to you, are done to allow the use of higher flowing meters.

Hope this helps.


1.) What effect does this have on "load" ?
2.) If it does change the load, then the timing would be affected by the calculated load? Correct?
2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8, Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Turbonetics T76, 60lb injectors, Flowmaster Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Magna return fuel system, MSD Mod 6

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by The Sniper » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:50 pm

1.) What effect does this have on "load" ?
None, because we change everything by the same amount to keep load calculations like stock.
2.) If it does change the load, then the timing would be affected by the calculated load? Correct?
You would be correct, but we correct the load calc. so no the ing. timing will work as designed.

The Sniper

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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by DirtyDirtyRacing » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:14 am

The Sniper wrote:Ok, Let start with what you asked SF to do. You wanted a large meter 3000 KG/HR. The 2002 and newer pcm's will only support up to 1741 KG/HR in the file. After that the values roll over to 0's. So in order for us to be able to put such a large meter in we have to do a few tricks. First is to get the new flow of the meter at 5 volts (3000 kg/hr) and divide that by the max flow of the pcm (1741 kg/hr). With the result of that we get a new divide factor to apply to some other values such as inj. flow, standard air charge, and some others. The reason you are seeing an inj. flow of say like a 20 lb. when you told it you had a 40 lb is that the meter was 2x larger flow value than the pcm would support. So the hand full of items that you are seeing changed that look "weird" to you, are done to allow the use of higher flowing meters.

Hope this helps.


does this apply to the ECMs on 94-95 GTs ? I am getting ready to get back to work on a 95 GT with a procharger 12lbs pulley , 331 stroker , trickflow heads , 42lbs injectors , bazooka meter set up as a blow thru ?
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Re: Standard Air Charge

Post by The Sniper » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:47 am

No it does not. Just 02-0? EEC-V

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